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Uburyo mushiki wa Kagame Marisi yaramutaye muri Tanganyika nyuma bakaza kugobokwa na Rujugiro

“Natunze nyina wa Paulo Kagame na mushiki we igihe kirekire i Burundi mbakuye Uganda” — Tribert Rujugiro Ayabatwa. Umunyemari Tribert Rujugiro Ayabatwa yagiranye ikiganiro kirambuye n’ikinyamakuru New Vision cya Uganda.

Icyo kiganiro ikinyamakuru cyanyu IHAME.org cyabahitiyemo kukibashirira mukinyarwanda kugira ngo mwiyumvire ibyo uyu munyemari w’umunyarwanda yatangaje. Harimo byinshi utari uzi nko kuba Tribert Rujugiro Ayabatwa yarigeze gutunga igihe kirekire nyina wa Nyakubahwa Paulo Kagame na mushiki we i Burundi abakuye Uganda.

Twagerageje kugenekereza mukinyarwanda. Ngaho tutabarambiye nimwisomere ikiganiro cyose.

New Vision: Tribert Rujugiro Ayabatwa ni muntu ki?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ayabatwa n’izina ry’ababyeyi, Rujugiro nirindi zina ryanjye Tribert n’irikirtu ryanjye. Kuko mu gihe cyacu nta biro by’irangamimerere ryabagaho ngo abana bandikwe bakivuka sinababwira neza umwaka navutseho gusa nabwiwe ko navutse ahagana 1940. Navukiye mu Rwanda ndahakurira kugeza ngejeje imyaka 19, kubera ibibazo bya politike mu Rwanda nahungiye i Burundi aho namaze imyaka 30. Mu mwaka wa 1990 nahavuye nerekeza mugihugu cya Afrika y’Epfo. Mu mwaka wa 1987 ubwo Colonel Jean Baptiste Bagaza yahirikwaga k’ubutegetsi na Pierre Buyoya narafashwe mfungwa imyaka 3 ndetse Perezida Pierre Buyoya anyambura ubucuruzi bwanjye. Mu mwaka wa 2005 natashye mu Rwanda aho namaze imyaka 4 kugeza 2009 ubwo nahavaga ngasubira mu gihugu cya Afrika y’Epfo. Ubu ntuye Afrika y’Epfo na Dubai aho mfite ibikorwa byanjye by’ubucuruzi.

New Vision: N’iki cyumwihariko cyatumye uhunga u Rwanda?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro :Nk’impunzi yari imaze imyaka 30 m’ubuhunzi numvise ko bagenzi banjye batangije intambara yo guhirika ubutegetsi bwa Nyakwigendera Juvenali Habyarimana. Bamaze guhirika ubutegetsi bwe nagerageje gutangira kubaka igihugu cyanjye muburyo bwose bwanshobokeraga. Nakoreye u Rwanda nka rwiyemezamirimo n’umucuruzi. Nafashije kubura “Chamber of Commerce”kandi nkurira ishami ryabatwara mu mahanga ibikomoka mu Rwanda (Chairman of the export angency). Nabaye umwe mubajyanama (Presidential Advisory Council) ba Perezida bamufashaga guha igihugu icyerekezo.

Uko ibihe byakomeje kugenda byagiye bigaragara ko Perezida Paulo Kagame twamwibeshyeho atari uko twamutekerezaga. Urugero: Yahindutse hafi ya bose mubayobozi bayoboranye intambara. Kuri none niwe wenyine mubayobozi batangiranye Rwandan Patriotic front(RPF) usigaye. Bamwe bapfuye imfu zidasobanutse, abandi baramuhunze bibereye m’ubuhungiro abandi babayeho mubucyene bicishijwe mu Rwanda.

Mu mwaka wa 2009, Kagame yambwiye imbona nkubone ko atageze k’ubutegetsi abiheshejwe n’uwariwe wese. Ibi byarantangaje cyane. Wibutse umubare w’abapfuye mu ntambara mu 1990-1994, imari n’imitungo byagiye bitangwa n’abanyarwanda, wibutse ubufasha twagiye duhabwa n’abantu na Leta ya Uganda, hanyuma umuntu umwe akabirenza ingohe akakubwira ko ntawe akesha kuba ari k’ubutegetsi. Nahise numva ko Umuyobozi w’igihugu cyacu atakiri umuyobozi utekereza wumva cyangwa ngo wemera kugirwa inama. Nahise mfata icyemezo cyo kuva mu Rwanda nkisubirira kuyobora businesses zanjye zari mubihugu bitandukanye bya Afrika no mubihugu by’Abarabu.

New Vision: N’uruhe ruhare wagize muri RPF mbere na nyuma y’intambara ya 1994?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Uruhare rwanjye mu ntambara hamwe n’abandi bashoramari rwari ngirakamaro cyane. Nafashije gutanga ibikoresho no gukusanya amafaranga. Ubwanjye nemeye gutanga imari yanjye nari mfite mugufasha RPF gutsinda intambara cyane ko icyo gihe imitungo yanjye yose yari yarafatiriwe na Perezida Buyoya i Burundi. Ariko natanze ntitangiriye itama kuko nemeraga impamvu y’intambara ya RPF. Uwari umuyobozi wa RPF icyo gihe Nyakwigendera Fred Rwigyema yari yaransabye gutanga no kuba gukangurira abandi kuyoboka no gufasha RPF. Mu gihe cy’intambara rero nabashije gukangurira abandi bashoramari n’abacuruzi nka Nyakwigendera Mico Rwayitare tubasha kwegeranya ubushobozi buhagije. Nyuma y’intambara nashoye imali mukubaka isoko rinini (shopping mall), nshora mu cyayi, mugukora inkweto, mukubaka amazu (housing estate), n’ibindi. Nashize imbaraga nyinshi mugutangiza ihuriro ry’abashoramali (Rwanda Investment Group -REG) ndetse ngirwa Umuyobozi Mukuru wayo, intego nyamukuru yacu ari ugushora mu mishinga ikomeye yatuma u Rwanda rutera imbere.

New Vision: N’iki cyabaye imbarutso yo gushwana kwawe na Paulo Kagame?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Twari dufite imiyoboro twemeranijweho dukemurira ibibazo byacu. Gake gake Perezida Paulo Kagame yagiye afunga iyo miyoboro yose kugeza ubwo RPF yabaye we ubwe. Muyandi magambo Kagame yashimuse RPF. Isigara ari irye ku giti cye, ariwe byose. Ndetse n’abikorera (Private sector) ihinduka igikoresho cya Kagame. Crystal Ventures LTD, ubucuruzi bw’ishyaka rya FPR yagiye itwara business mukwaha kw’abantu bamwe na bamwe mu gihugu cyacu. Nahise mfata icyemezo ko urwo Rwanda rutakimbereye.

New Vision: Watubwiye ko mwashwanye na Kagame 2009. Ni hehe wahise uhungira?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Nasubiye muri Afrika y’Epfo aho nari mfite urugo n’ubwenegihugu. Nabaye muri ibyo imyaka 15 nsubira mubucuruzi bwanjye nari nasigiye umuhungu wanjye.

New Vision: Kuva mwashwana yaba yarigeze agerageza kugushaka no kugukangurira kugaruka iwanyu i Rwanda?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Yego. Yanyoherereje ubutumwa muri Mata 2010 abunyujije k’umufasha we Jeannette Kagame wampamagaye akansaba gutaha mu Rwanda ndetse tugirana ikiganiro kirambuye. Nabwiye Jeanette ko ngiye kubanza kujya i Buruseli mubwira ko mucyumweru cyari gukurikiraho nari gutaha mu Rwanda. Sinashoboraga gutaha i Rwanda, naramuhamagaye Jeanette mubwira ko ndi mubitaro ko nzaza undi munsi. Jeanette Kagame yahise ambaza niba mfite ubushobozi bwo guhindura gahunda z’umugabo we. yarambajije niba umugabo we yari yapanze kubonana nanjye kuki nahindura amatariki uko nishakiye? Ahita ankupiraho telefone. Byarangiriye aho.

Mu mwaka wa 2012, Andrew Mwenda, umujyanama wa Kagame, yaje kundeba Dubai anyumvisha ko ngomba kwandika ibaruwa isaba Kagame imbabazi kugira ngo anyemerere kugaruka mu gihugu cyanjye. Nabwiye Mwenda ko nta cyaha nakimwe nishinja cyatuma nandika nsaba imbabazi. Cyakora nanditse ibaruwa nziza mbwira Kagame ko niteguye gutaha i Rwanda ariko sinamusaba imbabazi. Iyo baruwa yanjye nyihaye Mwenda ambwira ko adashobora guha Kagame bene iyo baruwa kuko yamubabaza cyane. Mwenda yakomeje kumpatira kwandika ibaruwa irimo gusaba imbabazi. Sinashoboraga kwandika bene ibyo, bihita birangirira aho.

New VisionHari ibirego bituruka kuri Ambasaderi Jenerali Major Frank Mugambage aherutse gushikiriza Perezida Yoweri Museveni bikurega ko witwaje abantu muziranye muri Uganda urimo kurekirita inyeshyamba , ukanaha amafaranga Ihuriro Nyarwanda RNC itsinda ryiyemeje kurwanya Kagame?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ibyo birego byose n’ibihimbano kandi Perezida Kagame nawe arabizi neza ko ari ibihimbano. Ubwo niyemezaga gufasha RPF k’urugamba nabiterwaga nuko nari impunzi ntafite n’urupapuro rw’inzira rw’igihugu cyanjye(Passport). Nari mfite impamvu zugufasha kuko n’abavandimwe banjye bari babayeho nabi mubihugu bahungiyemo niyemeza gutanga ubufasha bushoboka. Ubu nta mpamvu n’imwe mbona yatuma nivanga mubya politike.

Mfite businesi zanjye. Uretse n’ibyo kagame yampugije ibyo kuba nafasha abanyepolitike. Ikindi ntabwo nshigikiye abantu bashaka kuzana intambara yatuma miliyoni z’abanyarwanda zihatakariza ubuzima. Ikiruta ibindi n’uko Kagame ubwe azi ko iyo niyemeza kumurwanya ngafasha abasirikare b’abarwanyi nka Kayumba Nyamwasa bitari kudutwara amezi arenze 6 kuba tumaze kumukura k’ubutegetsi. No mu Rwanda aho Kagame ahoza abajenerali m’uburoko, abafunga abafungura. Kagame ubwe azi umwuka uri mu Rwanda. Ariko nyine birumvikana aba agomba guhimbira abantu ibinyoma. Nguko uko nanjye agenda ampimbira ibinyoma.

New Vision: Watubwiye ko ukorera Dubai na Afrika y’Epfo. Perezida wanyu aherutse kuvuga ko ukorana n’abamurwanya baba muri Afrika y’Epfo na Uganda. Iyo uri muri Afrika y’Epfo waba warigeze utumirwa mu nama iyariyo yose kuganira uko mwahirika Kagame?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ndakubwiza ukuri ko ntashishikajwe na Politike y’u Rwanda. Kagame afite uburenganzira bwo gukora ibyo yishakiye. Nakuye isomo mukumufasha kugera aho ageze hariya. Miliyoni z’abanyarwanda ushizemo n’abadafite ubushobozi bwo kwambuka Uganda gushakayo imibereeho, kuko Kagame yafunze umupaka, ntibishimiye ibyo abakorera. Bitinde bitebuke abanyarwanda bazahangana nawe muburyo bwabo. Kubwanjye ibyo nakoze birahagije.

New VisionHari n’ibindi birego by’u Rwanda byemeza ko urimo gukorana na bamwe mubasirikare ba Uganda (UPDF) n’abo mu ishami ry’ubutasi rya Uganda bagufasha mu mugambi wawe wo guhirika Kagame?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ibyo n’ibihuha n’ibinyoma. Kagame yifitiye ibye bibazo agomba guhangana nabyo. N’umuntu udashobora guhagarika ko bamurwanyiriza mugihugu imbere cyangwa mubihugu bituranyi. Abari inshuti ze baramuhunze batangiza amashyaka yo kumurwanya. Kagame ashyamiranye n’u Burundi, Uganda n’Afrika y’Epfo. Rimwe yigeze kuvuga ko azasekura perezida wa Tanzania jakaya Kikwete kuko gusa yari yamusabye ko yavugana n’abamurwanya bamaze kuba benshi. None Kagame aherutse gufunga imipaka ihuza u Rwanda na Uganda. Kagame aherutse gutegeka ko abanyarwanda bakennye banashonje kudasohoka bagana Uganda. Kuvuga ko nkorana n’ingabo za Uganda gushaka guhungabanya u Rwanda n’ikinyoma. Magingo aya, Kagame ubwe niwe ugira uruhare mu ihungabana ry’u Rwanda.

New Vision: Ubwo wahungaga u Rwanda wari warahashoye imari zawe bwite, wari unahafite Mall nini cyane muri Kigali n’ibindi. Izo mari wari washoye mu Rwanda byazigendekeye gute?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Mu mwaka wa 2013 Kagame yanyambuye isoko ryanjye (Shopping Mall) yitwa Union Trade Center(UTC). Yanyambuye kandi inzu yanjye n’umurima (Farm) Yakoresheje itegeko bita “imitungo idafite ba nyirayo”. Tekereza. UTC yari ibaruye kuri ba nyirimigabane bayo, ifite imiryango 81 z’ubucuruzi ifite n’abakozi 400 bayikoramo. Ni gute bene iyo businesi yakwitwa itagira ba nyirayo? Nyuma UTC yaje kugurishwa kuri Miliyoni 7 z’amadolari kandi yari ifite agaciro ka miliyoni 20 z’amadolari ya Amerika. Birashoboka ko ikintu cy’ubugoryi Kagame yakoze n’ukunyambura ubwenegihugu bw’u Rwanda. Nubwa mbere nari numvise igihugu cyambura umuntu ubwenegihugu bw’igihugu cye.

New Vision: Ni gute wari warabonye kiriya kibanza cyubatsemo UTC?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Abanyarwanda 30 bari bahungutse baturutse i burundi basabye gukorera muri kiriya kibanza. Kagame yababwiye ko bari bugihabwe ari uko nanjye banshizemo tukubaka inyubako igezweho muri Kigali igahesha isura nziza u Rwanda. Naremeye twubaka UTC.

New Vision: Byagendekeye bite indi mitungo yawe?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Byose barabinyambuye ushizemo n’inzu zanjye zari zarantwaye akayabo ka miliyoni 2 z’amadolari ya Amerika? Bavuze ko inzu yanjye nayo itari ifite nyirayo. Umugore wanjye nawe yari afite i famu (Farm) nto ifite hegitari 10 nayo Leta yarayitwaye ngo ntigira nyirayo.

New Vision: None se umuryango wawe wose uba hanze y’u Rwanda?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Oya ntabwo umuryango wanjye wose uba hanze y’u Rwanda. Mfite umuvandimwe ukiri mu Rwanda wumva ko Kagame nta kosa afite.

New Vision: Ambasaderi w’u Rwanda muri Uganda yahuye na Perezida Museveni amusaba ko yafunga businesi zose ufite muri Uganda. Perezida Museveni yarabikumenyesheje?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Yego. Muri Gashyantare 2018 yoweri Museveni yansabye ko twabonana. Iyo niyo nshuro yonyine nabonanye na Museveni. Perezida Museveni yambajije niba ndwanya Kagame. Namusubije ko ntashishikajwe na politike yo mu Rwanda kandi ntana hato mpuriye n’ibikorwa ibyaribyo byose bya politike. Perezida Museveni yahise ambwira ko hari inyandiko zandikwa na Professor David Himbara wigeze kuba umujyanama wa Kagame muby’ubukungu. Yahise ambaza niba Himbara ari inshuti yanjye, kandi niba ari inshuti yanjye niba nashobora gusaba Himbara guhagarika kwandika kuko inyandiko ze zibabaza zikanahungabanya Kagame. Nabwiye Museveni ko Himbara yakoreye Kagame imyaka 8 yose kandi ko bombi bafite ibyo bapfa ari bo bonyine bashobora gukemura ibibazo bafitanye.

Muri iyo nama Museveni yakomeje kunyumvisha ko Kagame yifuza amahoro y’u Rwanda na Uganda kandi ko kugira ngo ayo mahoro aboneke nagombaga kugurisha ibikorwa byanjye muri Uganda hanyuma nkava muri Uganda. Nabwiye Perezida Museveni ko ngiye gushakisha uzangurira ibikorwa byanjye nkava muri Uganda. Sinifuzaga ko akarere kagira ibibazo kubera jyewe. Perezida Museveni yambwiye ko Uganda ari igihugu kigendera ku mategeko ko ntagomba kugurisha ibyanjye cyangwa guhagarika buinesi zanjye muri Uganda kubera igitutu. Ndetse kugeza none ndimo gushakisha uwangurira ibikorwa byanjye muri Uganda ngo mpave ariko sindabasha kubona umuguzi.

New Vison: Kuki u Rwanda rwifuza ko ufunga ubucuruzi bwawe bwagendaga neza bw’itabi muri uganda?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ntabwo arijye ubashishikaje. Kagame arabizi ko ndi umuntu usanzwe kandi ko mbeshejweho n’amadolari 1000 ya Amerika ku kwezi. Narakoze cyane mu mibereho yanjye. Kagame afitiye ishyari ishoramari mfite muri Uganda. Genda muri Arua wirebere ibyo maze kuhakora. Nugukorera ifaranga mfatanije n’abahatuye. mfite ishoramari muri Afrika y’Epfo, Dubai, Nijeria, Angola no mubihugu byose bituranye n’u Rwanda kandi ibicuruzwa byanjye bigera mubihugu 24.

Nimfunga Buzinesi mfite muri Uganda, ayo mafaranga nashoyeyo ahwanye na 10 ku ijana ry’ayo ninjiza yose. Iyo nifuza gufasha inyeshyamba zishaka kuvanaho Kagame nagombaga kuzifasha nkoresheje 90 ku ijana ry’ayo ninjiza ahandi hose nkorera ubucuruzi. Ubwo n’uburyo Kagame akoresha gusenya abanyemari b’abanyarwanda. Sindi uwa mbere sindi n’uwanyuma ashatse gusenya.

New Vision: Imipaka ya Uganda n’u Rwanda irafunze. Ni gute uru rujijo ruri burangire?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Nifuzaga kugira inama abanya Uganda kutagira impungenge. Ni nkaho Kagame yirashye ikirenge. U Rwanda rubeshejweho na Uganda ntabwo ari uganda ibeshejweho n’u Rwanda. Kagame ari buhure n’ingorane atewe no gufunga iriya mipaka mpuzamahanga yanyuragaho ibyo uRwanda rwashoraga hanze cyangwa ikanyuraho ibyo u Rwanda rwatumizaga hanze.

Kagame ari buhure n’ikibazo cy’abanyarwanda baryaga igitoki giturutse Uganda, amata yaturukaga Uganda, amagi yaturukaga Uganda. Kagame araza guhura n’ikibazo cy’ababyeyi bari bafite abana bigaga Uganda. Kagame ntari bworoherwe na’abandi bakuru b’ibihugu bya East Africa Community bari batangiye kwishimira urujya n’uruza rw’abantu n’ibicuruzwa byo muri EAC.

New Vision:Twagiye duhura n’ibibazo by’abanyarwanda bicirwa aho bahungiye urugero ni Patrick Karegeya n’umujenerali washwanye na Paulo Kagame akarasirwa muri Afrika y’Epfo. Nta bwoba ufite ko nawe umunsi umwe uzicwa, baba bamaze nawe kukugera amajanja?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Twese tuza kuri iyi isi k’ubushake bw’Imana tukaba ari nako tuyivaho. Nemera ko iyo uvutse hari urwandiko ruba ruhari rugaragaza uko uzabaho n’uko uzapfa kandi icyo wakora cyose ntushobora kubihindura. Ntabwo nzahagarika ibyo nagombaga gukora ngo n’uko mfite ubwoba bwo gupfa.

New Vision: Wumva hari igihe bizashoboka ukicarana na Perezida Kagame mukaganira imbona nkubone kubibazo byanyu?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ibyo ntibiteze kubaho. Ntabwo ntekereza ko yazabona icyo kumbwira. Ndamuzi si mushya kuri jye. Yari umwe mubo mumuryango wanjye. Mubyara wanjye wo hafi cyane yashatse mushiki we. Muri za 1980 nigeze gutunga nyina na mushiki we i Burundi ubwo Perezida Milton Obote yirukanaga impunzi z’abanyarwanda muri Uganda. Narabahungishirije i Burundi ndabatunga kugeza ubwo NRM yafataga ubutegetsi Uganda mu 1986. Abacuruzi bagenzi banjye bateranije amafaranga menshi yo gufasha mu ntambara yo muri 1990-1994. Kagame azaba afite byinshi byo kunsobanurira.

New Vision: N’iki wumva gishobora kuzagusubiza i Rwanda umunsi umwe?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Niharamuka habaye impinduka za politike. Niharamuka habonetse umunyarwanda uha agaciro abanyarwanda. Igihe tuzaba tudafite umuperezida wiyumva ko ari Imana. Icyo gihe nzataha iwacu i Rwanda.

New Vision:Watubwiye ko udashishikajwe na politike, ese uzakomeza urebere igihugu cyawe mubibazo bitewe n’ubutegetsi bw’igitugu bw’umuntu umwe?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Ntabwo politike ari ikintu kimbamo. Nayigiyemo rimwe bitewe n’ibihe twarimo by’ubuhunzi. Umunsi abanyarwanda babonye ko barimo kubabazwa n’umuyobozi utabakorera ibikwiye, bazahaguruka ubwabo barwanye akarengane.

New Vision: Mbere y’uko uhunga u rwanda n’uwuhe mwanya warufite?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Nari narabashije kumvisha abashoramari 42 b’abanyarwanda kwishyira hamwe mucyo twise REG. Twari tumaze kugera aho twegeranya miliyoni 25 z’amadolari ya Amerika.Nari Umuyobozi w’iyo kampani kandi twari dufite umushinga twashoyemo wa sima mu Rwanda. Twari dufite umushinga wo gushora muri Gaz methane yagombaga kubyazwa ingufu n’indi mishinga. Sinzi uko byaje kugendekera REG.

New Vision: N’ubuhe bushuti ufitanye na Perezida Museveni kandi ni gute umubona utubwije ukuri?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Twe abanyarwanda dukesha Perezida Museveni ikintu kimwe, iyo tutamugira ntitwari kuzataha iwacu i Rwanda. Abanyarwanda bari baratorejwe mu ntambara za Uganda baje kuba aba Ofisiye muri Leta ya NRM. Bahawe umugisha na Perezida Museveni batera u Rwanda. Kugeza none Uganda ifite miliyoni y’abayarwanda kubutaka bwayo bahunze u Rwanda. Ntamunyarwanda wagakwiye gushidikanya kuruhare rwa Museveni mu ntamabara twarwanye.

New Vision: Hari ijambo wifuza kubwira abavandimwe n’abashiki bawe b’abanyarwanda n’abanya Uganda?

Tribert Ayabatwa Rujugiro: Abanya Uganda n’abanyarwanda n’abavandimwe. Imana yabigennye ityo. Ntabwo ufunga imipaka azatuma twangana hagati yacu. Biriya bya Kagame byo gufunga imipaka n’ibyakanya gato bizahita nkuko Kagame ubwe azacaho.

Mukinyarwanda tugira duti:” n’imvura iragwa igahita”

Any word for your Ugandan and Rwandan brothers and sisters?

Ugandans and Rwandans are brothers and sisters. God determined so. No closure of borders will succeed in dividing our people. The closure by Kagame is a temporary setback for Rwandans and Ugandans that will soon pass – just like Kagame himself will pass. As we say in Kinyarwanda, ”ninvura irangwa igahita” – even rains stop